Mr King, of course, was the manager with the golden wand who weaved his magic and transformed a struggling Town side from bottom of the Northern Premier League into one of the top non-league sides in the British game during his short, but historical, stint as manager.
The crowning glory of that stint came when he masterminded the side to the third round of the FA Cup in 1986/87 before the Canaries got knocked out in a replay against Barnsley at Oakwell, succumbing to a solitary Rodger Wylde strike in front of over eight thousand fans, of which I was one.
The manager, and the wonderful team he put together for us to support will forever be held in the highest of esteem by Town supporters, and rightly so. They put the club on the back pages of the national press and on national television and, for those few months, we were amongst the big boys in the World’s greatest cup competition!
Next year marks the thirtieth anniversary of those halcyon days and I am very happy to be able to publish an exclusive interview here with Phil Wilson, a mainstay of the side who was also Mr King’s first signing when he took over at the Oval.
Phil went on to take over the hot seat after Tommy Smith failed in his attempts to replicate Mr King’s success, and has enjoyed a long, and very successful career in the game. I’ll let Phil tell you all about it and also of course, about his time at Caernarfon Town.
Question: First of all, can you give us an overview of your career in the game Phil?
Phil: “I started at Tranmere Rovers and played in the A, B and reserves sides. I had a bad knee in my last season there and I played when I should not have which did not do me any good. I had my cartilage out and went moved on to play in the Cheshire League for New Brighton and Winsford. I was a Striker and was scoring a lot of goals and a number of league clubs came in for me so I ended up going to Blackburn. I would not sign full-time though as I was half way through my teacher training at college. I started very well with Blackburn and had some first team games in pre-season. I was not really a goal scoring striker and so they moved me to right wing where I played well. But it never really worked out there and after going out on loan to Wigan, who were then a top non-league team, I moved to Runcorn and started playing in modfield and this is where I played until the end of my career.
Before the Conference we won the Northern Premier League and lost in FA trophy semi-finals three times. We were one of the best non-league teams in the country and I played there for six great years. Altrincham, when the Conference started, paid a decent transfer for me and we won the Conference but I had a falling out with the manager and went for a short spell to Mossley, where we won the Northern Premier League and lost in the 1980 FA Trophy final at Wembley. I then got the move I wanted by going to Northwich, also for a decent fee. I had had four very good years with them in the Conference and played in two Trophy finals at Wembley, beating Bangor in the 1984 final.
When I was thirty six, with a bad knee and drifting down the leagues John King, who was my manager at Northwich, wanted me to go as player coach with him at Caernarfon. It gave me a new lease of life and you know the rest! I even went back to playing in the Conference with Northwich when Tommy Smith took over at the Oval. I then managed you for two seasons, one of which was very successful. I was still playing at Rhyl at thirty eight when Stalybridge Celtic offered me the manager’s job. We won the league and I managed them for two seasons in the Conference. Other manager jobs I held were at Leek where we won the Northern Premier League and got to the Conference, I was at Northwich for two and a half years in the Conference where we finished high, I returned to Stalybridge and won the league again and we got promoted to conference. I was next at Southport and managed Lancaster to promotion to the Conference North before my final job at Barrow. I went back to Blackburn as a European scout after that and I am still there now, doing all the match assessments on our opponents.”
Q) You obviously had a very impressive playing career and I was wondering what were your highlights as a player?
Phil: “The Highlights were playing at Wembley three times, winning three league titles, a number of first and second round ties in the FA Cup and a couple of third round ties including Caernarfon.”
Q) How did your move to Caernarfon come about Phil?
Phil: “I was thirty six and dropping down the leagues and John King phoned and asked me if I fancied it at Caernarfon.”
Q: Things did not start too well at the club for Mr King, results wise, and legend has it that he was having second thoughts about it soon after arriving. I have also heard that you were instrumental in him staying. Can you give us an insight in what happened and how you managed to persuade Mr King that there was some potential here?
Phil: “They were bottom of the Northern Premier League, he went to watch them and they lost 9-2 at home. Our first game was Macclesfield away and we lost 7-2. I played. I drove him to the game and on the way home he said he was packing it in as it was a hopeless cause and it would be too difficult to turn the team around. I took him down to a Rugby club I played squash at and persuaded him to give it a go. Part of the reason was I wanted to continue playing at a good standard but if he had not stayed he would not have had that FA cup run and it was that run that put him back in the limelight, in the papers and on TV and this got him the job at Tranmere. The rest is history what a fantastic manager he was .
Let’s get something straight, he did not stay because of me, but we talked about who we could bring, players like Kenny Jones (who was older than me), Steve Craven and Ray Woods and we eventually built a great team. Martindale, Higgins, Salmon and Russ Hughes, together with Huwey (Huw Williams) and some of the other good local players. I was past my best but I was reinvigorated, I loved it! I played in some very good non- league teams but that side on the day was as good as any.”
Q: As a mainstay of the side, it must have been an exciting time to be playing for Caernarfon?
Phil: “I am positive that if we had not gone so far in the FA Cup we would have won the league easily and been promoted to the Conference. Those two years and my first season Managing Caernarfon were great years.”
Q: I sold programmes at the Stockport tie and remember arriving at the Oval a few hours before kick-off to sit in on a police briefing and you were running around the pitch on your own. I’m pretty sure you missed out on that match and was just wondering what do you remember of that day, and the whole Cup run itself?
Phil: “I was warming up at the Stockport game because I had been injured for a couple of weeks and was not fit. For us to go and win at York was a fantastic result as they were a decent first division team. The Barnsley tie, our chance was at home and we had a couple of opportunities to win and I was an inch away from getting on the end of a free kick. 1-0 flattered us in the replay.”
Q) You mention that John King was a great manager and I know that everyone would agree with that but I was wondering what made him stand out so much? What were his strengths?
Phil: “John King was a great Manager he made you want to play for him. He had lots of experience and knew how to get the best out of you.”
Q) How far do you think Mr King could have taken the club had he not returned to Tranmere Rovers?
Phil: “If Kingy had stayed at Caernarfon I think he would have produced a team that would have won the league and been promoted to the Conference. However, Caernarfon would never have been able to financially compete in the league, just like Bangor found out. It was his fate that he was able to go back to the club he knew best.”
Q) Can you describe a typical day for you as a player for Caernarfon on match days? How did you get down here, and with who? Also, where did the team train Phil and how many times a week?
Phil: “We would leave the Wirral at 11:30 and drive to pick up some of the Liverpool lads at a hotel near Ellesmere Port. We would go to Caernarfon and go to a pub, the Black Boy I think, and meet all the lads for tea and toast at 1:00. Then we would go to the ground for 2:00. Kingy liked having all the lads together to build team spirit.”
Q) Where did the team train and how many times a week?
Phil: “We trained at Deeside on a Tuesday and Thursday when there was not a midweek game and he only brought the local players through for big games, so they normally trained with the Reserves at Caernarfon. I normally took most of the training.”
Phil: “The Oval pitch was not up to today's standard but was ok. The ground was good especially when there was a good crowd. I remember scoring a header against Shrewsbury to win in the Welsh cup and the stand by the social club was nearly full. It was the year when I was manager and we lost to Cardiff in the semi-finals.
There were a lot of hard working people there and they were always very friendly. I remember a young John Watkins.”
Q) What happened to the members of the famous FA Cup side, Phil and do you still keep in touch?
Phil: “Russ Hughes went on to play for me at Stalybridge, as did Steve Craven. Ray Woods played for me in the team that finished third when I was manager and he went on to Wigan and later Coventry. Did you know Higgy, Martindale and for a short spell Steve Craven all played for Tranmere with Kingy, and both Martindale and Higgy did so for a number of years and had great success there. I, at 38, played for Northwich with Austin Salmon in the conference before returning to Caernarfon when Tommy Smith left.”
Q) You had a successful period as manager of the team too, especially in your first season, and brought in some very good players. What do you remember of that team and how did you find the experience of managing and creating your own side? I think we finish third in the NPL in your first season in charge which was very impressive!
Phil: “I enjoyed managing and don't forget the year we finished third I was still playing. Do you remember me bringing a young Ian Woan to the club, and he went on to play for Nottingham Forest and is now assistant manager at Burnley. I also got him to go to Runcorn where, after a few months, he got a move to Forest.
My first sacking was at Caernarfon the season after we finished third in the Northern Premier League, which was better than the FA cup team. We lost in the qualifying round of the FA cup away in the North East and after the high expectations from two years previously I was sacked. I learned there was no loyalty in football. It is funny that in my first season managing Stalybridge I took over with the team in the bottom two in November and we played at Caernarfon in the final match of the season. We won and they went down and probably never reached the heights again.
When I came back later on to help Terry Murphy out, the then manager who was ill, it was a bad move for me. I had been managing in the Vauxhall Conference, the top non-league in the country, and then player manager at 39 in the first division of the Northern Premier League. My heart was not in it, and I left in pre-season to go and manage Leek Town.”
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| Phil in action whilst player manager at Caernarfon. Photo by Richard Birch. |
Phil: “I was a PE teacher and then later an Advisory teacher for Looked After Children. I did not find it hard because football has always been first in my life whilst my teaching paid the mortgage.”
Q) How do you think today's equivalent of the Conference League, the National League, compares with the one you played in?
Phil: “The Conference has become a full time league with only a couple of clubs now being part- time. I was one of the few part time managers even when I was managing in it in the nineties and early in the 2000's. I would not go full-time because managers get the sack and I would still have a teachers job to fall back on. Incidentally, I was only sacked three times in twenty years. The league is no better than it was except it is now full-time. In my day the top non-league players were better off in the non-league with a good job and earned more money. They did not want to be full time.”
Q) You must have seen many changes in the game over the years and I was wondering what you think of the game today? Has it changed for the better?
Phil: “The game does not seem to have the characters and leaders that were around in my day Technically it has improved but heart and determination is lacking.”
Q) When did you join Blackburn Phil, and in which post, and what does your job entail these days?
Phil: “I joined Blackburn after my last job at Barrow, It was only supposed to be until I found another club but I never ever went for another job. I was going all over Europe watching games as well as a lot Premiership matches, I had no pressure and after about a year I was happy to continue to do it. I have been there nine years and now we are no longer in Premiership I do all the match reports on our next opponents.”
Phil: “As I have said earlier the three years I had there, two with Kingy and then the season we finished third, were some of the happiest I had as a player because at my age I thought I was finished and I proved myself wrong.”
A massive thank you to Phil for taking the time to answer my questions and being so honest with his answers. As someone who looked on from the terraces as the team he played in, and later managed, proved a match for everyone over a three year period in the eighties, it was great to hear his side of the story, and also to learn about his long career in the game. I hope you all enjoyed reading this as much as I did!
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